Jodi: Hi. I’m Jodi Cohen and I am so honored to have someone I deeply admire my friend, Niki who is an award-winning functional health practitioner and transformation coach. She helps people optimize energy, especially by tapping into their parasympathetic state. In 2005, she co-founded one of the largest mind-body clinics in integrative medicine in the United Kingdom. The results with patients at the clinic were published as a preliminary study in 2012 that I’m hoping you’ll talk about in the British Medical Journal Open.
In August, 2015, she hosted the largest free online health summit on overcoming fatigue, which I think relates to the vagus nerve and vagus nerve infection hypothesis and interviewing 29 world leading experts on optimizing energy with over 30,000 attendees. Since then, she’s spoken on over 40 large online health summits reaching over a million people worldwide. And I love your message about staying calm to navigate through the storms. And I’m hoping you can just tell people a little bit about trauma, all kinds of trauma and how that correlates with your parasympathetic nervous system.
Niki: Thank you so much for having me, Jodi. It’s great to be here on such an important topic and so timely, boy do people need to understand about the vagus nerve and staying calm and how to do that. So just as a little bit of my background, I started with working with people on the severe end of chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, and the housebound, bedbound 25% that are really in a bad way. And the clinic that you mentioned I co-founded, we always had a functional health nutrition division, and we always had a psychology division, we always co-treated people with both approaches, because we realized from an early stage, right from the beginning that we needed the underlying psychological support, as well as the physiological support because the mind and the body truly are one thing. And your emotional state of being translates into your biology and the root of how that communicates on a big level, not the entire picture, but a large part of how the mind and the body communicate is via the vagus nerve, via the autonomic nervous system which is what we understand as being the fight-flight response that triggers the sympathetic side.
And what we have is the parasympathetic side, which is mostly made up of the vagus nerve. This is just rehearsal for people, but it’s always good and I’m glad that we get to the general public and help where people, we won’t to be able to talk about the vagus nerve and not have to explain it’s part of the autonomic nervous system, and the vagus nerve is the opposite of the fightflight response. And the vagus nerve elevates tons of organs in the body, it’s the nerve of compassion, it’s the nerve that when you stimulate it, you feel connected to yourself and others.
And what I found is that so many chronic complex illnesses and fatigue, fibromyalgia and fatigue are the poster child illnesses for low vagal tone. So low vagal tone being someone stuck in the chronic state of stress. Now it’s not just a nervous system thing, it’s everything, it’s the genetic expression.
So what happens with trauma and especially early life trauma is that it changes the epigenetic expression of how we respond to stress. So we only need a little bit of stress that will cause a huge stress response and it epigenetically shifts so that we are stuck in sympathetic. We have an epigenetic reset of the nervous system causing us to get stuck in a stress response as a response to early life stress. Now the early life stress thing, this is one of my areas, it’s the main area I focus on, early life stress being early life trauma basically.
The reason being that huge studies by the CDC and Kaiser Permanente confirmed that 67% of all adults have had early life stress, and that was the tip of the iceberg, that was an underestimate, and that was 17,000 adults were assessed. We also know through mainstream science that 55% of all adults have attachment trauma. When we talk about trauma, most people think of it as PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder.
Jodi: Yeah, they think of it as some kind of car accidents or physical trauma or something really extreme, they don’t realize the little minor traumas that can add up.
Niki: Right, this is it. And PTSD in response to a discrete event, it’s usually a single event not to minimize that, that has a huge impact on somebody. The issue is though it’s relatively rare compared to attachment and developmental trauma. And the other thing is about developmental attachment trauma, which I’ll explain more about exactly what that is. It makes you much more prone to develop PTSD in response to adult stressors.
Jodi: Because you’ve been primed. Your brain is primed to be more receptive to the stress chemicals.
Niki: Exactly. And this is where they did studies of the soldiers coming out of war zones. And some of the soldiers would get PTSD and some of them weren’t getting PTSD, the ones that got PTSD in response to that very stressful adult event all had much more developmental and attachment trauma. So I don’t deal with PTSD or treating that or resolving that, I refer people for that, there’s very specific things you can do for that type of trauma, which is like EMDR Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprogramming is perfect for the kind of disorder.
Jodi: I do EMDR, it’s basically eye tracking, it’s amazing. It really does help reset your nervous system.
Niki: Yes. And that’s part of it if you have PTSD, but my core mission if you like is raising awareness about these developmental and attachment trauma, because it’s to do with emotional bonding with your key caregivers at a young age, it even starts preconception. So if mom’s stressed out, depressed and unhappy while pregnant with you that is being transmitted to baby it transmits to baby.
We also have inter-generationally inherited trauma where we know that traumas that our parents and grandparents have been through affects us epigenetically, it’s been shown, this is why third generation survivors of the Holocaust victims have the same psychological and physiological expression as their grandparents who were in the Holocaust, so it’s not a controversial thing anymore. It shouldn’t be controversial to society anymore to confirm that trauma is inter-generationally inherited. We think environmental factors aren’t inherited, actually they are.
Jodi: And that’s why a family constellation therapy, things that can clear past trauma are really powerful. I would love you to land a little bit more on trauma because I think people think, oh well there was food on the table and a roof over my head, but maybe you were a latchkey child. What does that mean? Can you explain more about attachment therapy and how these little minor traumas that we might dismiss or not even realize are affecting us?
Niki: Absolutely. First of all, developmental trauma, it’s all to do with OP, which is other people, which means the child’s relationship with other people, usually the key caregivers. So I often call it relational trauma and it is something that’s ongoing, it’s ambient, it’s there all the time.
Jodi: Because our sense of safety is dependent when we’re little, we rely on other people to keep us safe. And so if we can’t rely on them, we don’t feel safe and we’re stuck in that sympathetic, I might not be safe state.
Niki: This is exactly what happens because we have an epidemic of really you could call it emotional neglect, emotional abuse. And this is where we don’t fully because, it’s not any blame going on here either, parents can only do the best that they had with their parents, it’s a societal level of mass consciousness that we exist in at the moment because the statistics were also epidemic levels. 55% of adults don’t attach properly with mom, because she’s probably got a job, she’s in difficulty.
And so the bonding between the child and the parents it’s to do with was the child emotionally seen, understood and validated? And the majority of children don’t get that, they don’t get enough of it. And not only do we have mirror neurons which means that our brain doesn’t develop in isolation, it doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it responds to social cues and we’ll literally have nerves and brain cells which stimulate and grow in response to the interaction with the people around us. So if we have, hate to say it, but sociopathic parents, we probably won’t develop many empathic nerves in our own brains, not having that behavior mirrored to us. So when a child is neglected and I’m talking about emotional, we’re not talking about physical sexual abuse here. That’s another level.
Jodi: That’s really important to land on because I don’t think people realize it could just be that you were a latchkey kid, and you maybe saw your parents for dinner and no one asked about your day, or if you had a fight with your friend.
Niki: I’m so glad, thank you for just highlighting that because you could call it covert trauma, I’ve also called it a silent ACE, silent adverse childhood events, silent, because it’s even more of a mind difficulty to come to terms with because you can’t say, well, I was hit or I was sexually abused, it’s not even that it’s just you were treated like you didn’t exist. And what that does to a small child, what I’ve come to understand through also doing my own healing with this type of attachment trauma, the child goes into a type of emotional psycho-emotional purgatory, it’s like they don’t exist.
They’re in imagine a desert where the small child is out in this desert on her or his own, no one’s around, they can’t really figure out if they exist or not and his feelings of unreality and non-existence and complete detachment, and basically it’s abandonment, and so much stems from this core early life stress, and we’ve dramatically underestimated it. We can have a lifetime of addiction and patterns that come from this disconnect with ourselves and others.
Jodi: That’s my core issue too. And I went into overachievement drive like this addiction. We basically don’t want to feel the pain, so we can numb ourselves in a number of ways; we can do alcohol or drugs or I used to run marathons because I would basically work so hard that I would collapse every night and never have to think and feel.
Niki: Exactly there. So I work with the Enneagram system. If people want to look up that, Enneagram Institute as E-double-N-E-A-G-R-A-M. It’s just a system of nine different personality types, it’s just a tool to go, okay attachment trauma makes you feel essentially not okay, I’m not safe and it’s not okay.
Jodi: So I need external validation constantly.
Niki: Yes. So you either become a type three, what you mentioned, the achiever type. You can become a type one perfectionist, if I just do everything perfectly, then I’ll be okay. If I just achieve and get enough external status, then I’ll be okay. There’s the giver types, tons of therapists and mums are type twos, they felt like they didn’t exist, and they only existed and got validated when they helped the people, so then they learned that’s how to exist, so then they become over-givers and by the way, all of those end up with burnout, chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, because the behavior patterns …
Jodi: It’s not sustainable.
Niki: No and that’s it. And there’s other ones, there’s anxiety type where the type six constantly feel that any moment the floor is just going to open up and they’re going to disappear through the floor. None of those types have any sense of core sense of safety. It actually creates a type of psychosis actually of if I just do everything perfectly, I’ll be okay. No, that’s not how it works.
Jodi: And that leads to eating disorders. And the weird thing is these are all externally validated; oh my goodness look you’re so successful, look you’re so slender whatever it is.
Niki: Society totally, this is what I mean about being epidemic, it’s our society is set up to feed this disconnection for themselves and profit off it. This process of reconnection, it tends to be completely life-changing because you really have to start looking at all almost like attachments with external things that are draining you, they’re not feeding you, but someone else has got some institutions, some corporation and corporations love achiever types, perfect.
Jodi: Actually Amazon feeds on these overachievers that are overworked and underpaid. I suspect that a lot of people that are listening are really identifying. And so I’d love to delve into how do you help people? How do you help them shift out of that state?
Niki: Really great. One of the issues with developmental and attachment trauma is it’s deep work and it’s not obvious. People are probably only 50% aware of how much attachment trauma they have, it’s only semi-conscious. And one of the problems with it is talk therapy doesn’t really get to it, talk therapy doesn’t really work, EMDR, EFT and those kinds of things are all for PTSD, that’s not attachment trauma. So one of the things to get to developmental trauma, there’s a range of approaches needed, and I can tell you because I’m working with this all the time, and I can tell you a few of the practical things that make the difference right away, because we can talk …
Jodi: Yes, the low hanging fruit.
Niki: Yes, we can talk till the cows come home about staying calm, it’s not possible with somebody with deep imprints in the brain since childhood, they feel actually as a part of them and they’re not connected, they feel scared alone, and in purgatory and they can’t explain it.
Jodi: It’s very hard to feel safe.
Niki: Yeah. It’s like thanks for telling me to feel safe, and actually it just makes me feel worse because I can’t do it.
Jodi: When I was juggling everything in my life with the little kids in there and they’re like, “You just need to stress less.” I’m like, “What am I going to do? Go to the spa for half the day? The laundry still needs to get done.”
Niki: It will last for the day. That’s what happens with meditation. A lot of people feel calm when they meditate, not to bash meditation, meditation does help, it won’t heal attachment trauma.
Jodi: It’s not a one-and-done thing. You need to develop small incremental habits to slowly turn the Titanic.
Niki: Exactly. So let’s talk about three levels that you can address. There are physiological things, remember we’ve had an epigenetic reset of our nervous system which changes your gut, lowers your immunity, so it is important to address physiological aspects.
Two things that are profound and I think everybody should do, circadian rhythm management, which is understanding about timing of when you eat food, the timing of lights, your activity levels during the day and also temperatures, the four things; light, temperature activity and food timing. We’re all completely out of whack because we live in a 24-7 society, we’re eating in the middle of the night, we have blue lights on in the evening when we should have darkness and we have central heating on during the day and then it’s on at night. We’re just not living—
Jodi: So what you’re basically saying is our body is designed to flow in a certain rhythm, and the more we can get in alignment with that rhythm, the more our body can return to balance and everything else. It’s almost like when you have too many tabs on your devices open, if you close one or two, it gives you more battery power.
Niki: Yeah, you see if you speak to the psychologist, they won’t pick up on this, this is the functional health recommendations and my message is we need both.
Jodi: I love that.
Niki: So circadian rhythm management, go to bed early, start going to bed at nine O’clock, get up with bright sunlight, wear your blue blocking glasses in the evening time so that you’re seeing orange light, think about campfire light, when it gets dark, we don’t want the blue lights, the LED lights and things like this. Don’t eat three hours before bed if you can.
Jodi: What do you think of intermittent fasting, do you think that helps with the circadian rhythm?
Niki: I think the three hours before bed not eating does work, but some people, their vagus nerve is so out of whack, so low vagal tone that they’ve got some insulin resistance. And this is one of my other main physiological recommendations I think every psychology practitioner should have their patient be doing before they even start the psychotherapy, circadian rhythm management, sleep. You’re going to be more depressed and anxious if you didn’t sleep properly.
So have complete blackouts in your room. There’s a whole set of recommendation, just type into Google circadian rhythm management recommendations, and there’s lots of recommendations that people made. It’s free online, so look into circadian rhythm management. The other thing is eating a diet that manages your blood sugar.
Jodi: Yes, because that peaks the stress hormone cortisol, if your blood sugar’s off.
Niki: You’re going to have a roller coaster. Everybody has different tolerance levels for carbohydrates, and it can be one of these factors. There are people being diagnosed with anxiety and depression when they’re just eating too much carbs for what their body can tolerate right now. We have this craze with the paleo diet, yes, the paleo diet really will manage your blood sugar. And I put all my fatigue clients, almost all of them are on a paleo type diet, so the high protein, cut out the carbohydrates, the issue is to me this is not a long term diet, the only reason it’s helping so many people is because their vagal tone is lowered. And if they’ve got their vagal tone back, their insulin would become strong again.
And I went through this process, I was putting weight on, I wasn’t sleeping properly and I couldn’t tolerate carbs anymore, I lost my carb tolerance. And it was only because I did tons of rebalancing the vagus that I can now eat bread, I can eat everything, and I don’t put weight on, I sleep really well, and my blood sugar has gone back. A diet originally to manage my blood sugar was needed, like a paleo type diet.
Jodi: It was a reset diet. You want to reset your circadian rhythms, you want to reset your vagal tone.
Niki: Well, it helps. It’s a bit of a short term help. The paleo diet I found is a short-term help. So then let’s talk about the nervous system things you need to do to reset the vagus nerve. I’ve been looking for a vagus nerve stimulator that I could recommend. There’s 40 different ways of stimulating the vagus nerve, chanting, meditating, I’m sure you’re covering meditation Om chanting, yoga is very important, there’s tons of ways.
Jodi: Essential oils, deep breathing is great, freezing water, tongue depressors, coffee enemas, there are a lot of ways you can go.
Niki: That’s great. Breathing is probably one of the top ones, meditation, definitely, but I was also interested in devices. I have no financial affiliation with this company.
There is a device called modiushealth.com, M-O-D-I-U-S health.com. It’s about $500 or similar, you can buy it in Europe and the USA and it connects to your iPhone. It was like a $2 million investment to make it, it’s a neuroscientist in Ireland that created it. It’s being marketed as a weight loss device, but they’re bringing one out for sleep. That’s just marketing.
Jodi: Is that the one that there’s like an electrical thing to your ear?
Niki: Okay, actually stimulates the vagus nerve via the vestibular nerve, so the vestibular is behind the ears.
Jodi: That’s where I put oils, yeah
Niki: Yeah. You put it behind the ears, you stick the little connectors on and there’s a wire and it is like a headband and it’s just connected to your phone. So it works really well, and it’s just an hour a day, you can be doing other things, sleeping, lying down, meditating, or working on a computer, the only thing is not to walk around. I’m just saying it because I get inundated with like do you know a vagus nerve device? This is the only one I recommend, the only one I’ve tried. I’ve tried some others and didn’t have good experiences, and it’s like all the others are three and a half thousand to $4,000, this one is 500.
So the Modius Health device changed my sleep completely, I put all my clients, I can make that recommendation now, so this is part of it. So you’re building, you’re going to get your circadian rhythm, get your blood sugar control, then you bring in the Modius. It might be three months of an hour a day, because you start to realize, wow, I can actually start to eat more carbs here.
Jodi: Well yeah, because the benefit is additive and cumulative. That’s the one thing, it’s not like a magic pill, like boom you take this and the next day you’re different. You have to do this for a while. It took a while to get to where you are, it’s going to take a while to unravel.
Niki: And to your point you need a lifestyle, vagus nerve stimulation is like how should I stimulate my vagus nerve? That’s like asking how long you should eat vegetables for.
Jodi: Or how much salt do you put on your food, yeah.
Niki: It becomes a way of life, so you want to bring in one of the things for attachment trauma specifically yoga and bodywork Feldenkrais therapy, yoga work. Trauma changes the brain and the way that we can change and reset the brain is actually through exercise and physical movement, people don’t realize this. There’s a brilliant book by Doctor Norman Doidge called The Brain’s Way of Healing, highly recommend it that book, when we practice on the Feldenkrais and how that rebuilds neural pathways in the brain. It reverses Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, people don’t realize that physical exercise is hugely important for brain health and the brain cuts through the vagus nerve.
Jodi: Yeah, well the balance basically activates the brain. And then also because the vagus nerve innervates all of the organs and the lungs, anything you do like the deep breathing in yoga, the holding the positions, all of that is helping to strengthen the communication from the body to the brain.
Niki: Yes. So the other thing is, and I want to make sure we touch on this before the end of the interview, how do you actually heal attachment trauma? These feelings of lack of sense of safety. It’s almost like there’s an inner child. There’s an inner child that is neglected and frightened to death and it’s driving our behavior and it gets scared when we get scared and it is really inner child work. So how do you do that work? EFT and EMDR, it’s an ongoing relationship with your own inner child that you want to build with.
There’s a therapy called Matrix Reimprinting, which I want to highlight where you’ve got Doctor Craig Wiener does it, Penny Croal. And essentially that is it’s an offshoot from EFT where you’re actually guided to go back to childhood and connect with and talk to your inner child, your young person, your younger version of you, and you actually make a connection, it’s almost like it’s never too late to have a happy childhood. So you as the adult re-parent, you bring in and you re-parent and you actually even can go through certain scenarios that were particularly distressing, and you as the adult come in and you connect with your inner child through the imagination, and it works on energy, on the energetic level.
And this is the other thing which is fascinating as well. I’ve discovered about trauma, I’ve been talking about trauma for years, when trauma leaves a biomechanical imprint, it leaves an imprint in the nervous system, but where does it actually exist? It’s in the energy field. It’s actually why EFT and EMDR, they are energetic therapies. And one of the most profound therapists that I’ve come across that will heal attachment trauma is sound therapy along the lines of Eileen McKusick’s work where she’s doing Biofield Tuning Fork therapy. It’s my top recommended therapy now for attachment trauma, because if you think, where does trauma exists?
You can’t find trauma by cutting up a cell or a nerve in the brain, you won’t find it there. It was Karl Pribram who was one of the greatest neuroscientists who said they exist in the field, trauma and memories exist in the field around the brain, so it’s in the field of all the neurons firing together, they’re wired together, but they create an electrical field around the brain, all the neurons firing together. Karl Pribram, the German neuroscientist said, “We think that the actual memories are probably in the field created.” That’s why EMDR works, that’s why EFT works, it’s why energy healing becomes very important.
Sound therapy, we’re talking about physics now because we need oscillation. It feels so much like a standing wave. Let’s say a trauma is a standing wave in the field where we can oscillate and shake up the trauma in the field, like an opera singer can sing and she can break the glass.
Jodi: Right, it’s like resonance. You can either match the frequency or dissonance, you can offset it. This is what oils do too, but you can use sound to break the pattern.
Niki: Essentials oils are great with that, very supportive to do along with sound therapy. Go and experience a sound bath. They’re exploding across different—
Jodi: Yeah, they have them a lot at yoga studios with the sound bowls.
Niki: But tuning fork therapy, I found that to be one of the most profound, and it’s quite a few hours if needed to heal attachment trauma, but when you do enough of it, it literally resonates. And I’ve been through amazing healing when I healed my attachment trauma, because I definitely had attachment trauma. I probably did about 15 hours of Biofield Tuning therapy on my attachment trauma, my liver regenerated.
Jodi: Yeah, well you hold a lot of anger and resentment in your liver. And what’s interesting for those that are listening and thinking that sounds expensive, it’s like there’s the Mercedes level, the Honda level, and then the used car level. And so I think for those that are listening if they can afford it, absolutely find a practitioner. And FSM is another one, anything that you can do for frequency. If you’re curious and you want to try this, maybe yoga or essential oils, there are some more affordable, accessible ways to start.
Niki: So sound therapy, I’m putting a course together on how to do sound therapy on yourself with your tuning folks. Yeah, so you just need to buy tuning forks and do it on yourself because there are so many hours needed. So that is a course that I’m bringing out probably July time. So we’ll be able to show people how to work on themselves. But the amazing thing is when you start bringing all that together, I couldn’t tolerate caffeine at all, my sleep was completely out of whack, I couldn’t tolerate carbohydrates, so I just put all the weight on. So circadian rhythm really helped, the paleo diet help, but it’s like who wants to be on a paleo diet for the rest of your life? Because it’s not much fun.
Jodi: It’s limiting.
Niki: Yeah it’s limiting. It’s too high protein and fat, ultimately for the long term I think there’s other risks, just a lack of fiber-based issues, I don’t think it’s a good long-term diet. I think a more vegetarian based, not completely, but yeah.
Jodi: Yeah and vegetables activate the gut microbiome, which also can stimulate the vagus nerve. I think that vegan can be therapeutic for a while, paelo for a while, all of these diets. Well, anything that shakes up your routine triggers …
Niki: Yes, you’re completely right. So I had the paleo in place, I had the circadian rhythm, I then had the Modius which started to reset my nervous system, even though it’s marketed as weight loss, but it’s because the vagus nerve will make you’re less insulin resistant, but one of the side effects people were getting more improved sleep, so don’t be distracted by it being weight loss, but always check. They’re very good at answering questions if you need to ask the manufacturer.
Jodi: And I want to land on why that. So the vagus nerve is basically the communication between the brain and the gut. And so if the vagus nerve is working better, it balances and normalizes if you’re exhausted all the time.
Niki: It increases pancreatic enzyme output, increases the stomach acid production, it stimulates the peristalsis, yes, the vagus nerve, it turns off inflammation. The vagus nerve stimulates the sex hormones that make you more fertile. So the vagus nerve is like rest, digest, detoxify, feed and breed, which all gets downregulated. Low vagal tone is number one cause of digestive issues I believe, and the low vagal tone can be caused by stress and heavy metals.
But so just to say the last piece on this, once I then started to do all the Biofield tuning and I started to heal my attachment trauma, for the first time I wasn’t getting up in the morning thinking the house is going to burn down or that my business is about to end or some of the hysterical response that if I’m truthful was like … because that’s what you are when you’re not in a sense of safety.
Once that started to clear, certainly I think the biggest cause of fatty liver and slow liver detox is being in a chronic state of stress which is coming from attachment trauma and you can’t just talk about it or go and have a cup of tea, you need to go much deeper, it’s non-verbal right, you have to get it out the energetic level, which is things like sound therapy.
So my liver started to regenerate, I’m on five cups of caffeine a day now, I’m just going carb crazy and I’m thinner than back in my twenties and I had an anti-aging as well. So I’m working with all my clients doing that right now. It was a real, amazing breakthrough to discover it. I’m saying it really works.
Jodi: No, it does because it’s also a really big impact because you’re triggering the vagus nerve, but it affects everything, so it’s very low hanging fruit like what you mentioned circadian rhythms, vagus nerve diet, all of these things are small pivots with huge impacts.
Niki: Yes. And the other piece to it as well is when you’re in chronic attachment trauma, so you’re in that lack of sense of safety, then trying to overachieve, perfectionism, whatever it is your addiction whatever you’re trying to do that level of stress actually creates pyroluria which is a deficiency, stress causes pyroluria, that’s a deficiency in Zinc, B6 and manganese. Once you’re deficient in those, you’re a vulnerable person to heavy metal buildup, Lyme, more likely to get impacted by mold and all these other things.
So when I’m rehabilitating somebody from what started with attachment trauma is very important. We do want to get the nutrient status back up again. The biggest issue I have dealing with healing all this is the emotional detox and the physical, you get profound emotional and physical detox symptoms, and that’s been my biggest, there’s a lot other things.
Lemon balm essential oil is super-duper, so just breathing that in if you’ve got emotional detox symptoms. The other thing is lemon baths are a godsend, so it’s 30 minutes doing like three lemons in a bath, just get in the bath with Epsom salts, because when you do sound therapy you’ll mobilize the emotion, so you’ll start …
Jodi: Yes and binders, telling people to take binders even when they emotionally detox.
Niki: Yes, because there’s nothing that will detox heavy metals more strongly than healing emotional trauma.
Jodi: Exactly, but then all these toxins are mobilized and they wind up in the gut. And if you don’t grab them with binders, they can get reabsorbed, so it’s really important.
Niki: Yes, you’re absolutely on track. The binders are massive. Binders by the way, one of binders is things like activated charcoal, perhaps the zeolites chlorella would work, bentonite clay, so these kind of binders, sauna therapy’s really important. I’ll give people one other tip because I know we need to go, but I’ll give people one other tip, last tip.
What is really important because emotions get stored in the waters of the body, and so it’s one of the reasons why Ayahuasca and these plant-based medicine ceremonies, there’s often purging because it’s the medicine with the music, sound therapy music that stimulates the mobilization of negative energetic emotions, that then gets dumped into the waters of the body, so the purging is to get the emotional negative emotions out. So lemon baths neutralize it, but that’s why sauna therapy is really good.
And there’s a brilliant water I recommend called waybackwater.com. It’s the most hydrating water I’ve ever come across and it will hydrate you like nothing, and that’s what enables you to do all the lemon baths and the sauna therapy. When I was doing three hours of biofield tuning a day, it was like being on a retreat, but all I did was lemon baths. So anyway, that’s it.
Jodi: Wow! This is amazing. I could talk to you all day. Thank you for everything. This was so helpful.
